In an interview with The Wire Hindi’s Ashutosh Bhardwaj, German Ambassador to India Philipp Ackermann discussed a range of issues including the country’s relationship with the new US administration, the threat of Russia, thoughts on the probability of the US leaving NATO, India and Germany’s relations and much more. Here are the excerpts:The new US administration is redrawing the transatlantic alliance, which has defined the West over the last 80 years. Where would the realignment take the Western world?The new US administration is still in its early months, (but) Washington has made it clear that they don’t see the European-American alliance as it evolved after 1945. There will be new arrangements, but how these will look like is difficult to say at this stage. We have different actors saying different things. The incoming US ambassador to NATO (Matt Whitaker) says that the US will commit itself to NATO in an unchanged way, whereas Elon Musk says the US should leave NATO. I don’t think that the US will leave NATO soon. It’s not easy, leaving NATO, given the role it has played in the last 80 years. Different voices from Washington may also be a characteristic of the new American policy. We have to work with that. The jury is still out on what the new transatlantic relationship will look like. We can’t rely on the US the way we had relied on in the past. That’s the message we got in the first two months.The other message is also clear. The US doesn’t want to take Canada and Europe along. It perhaps is now closer to Russia. I don’t think that they are closer to Russia than to the West. There might be some surprising and confusing messages, for instance, JD Vance in Munich. But the bond of friendship between the Americans and Europe will not fade away in a day.We have to face the truth, however, that we can’t take it for granted anymore. We have to work for this partnership and we have to convince the American side that there is a future in this partnership and it’s also beneficial for America to be in this partnership. It’s certainly a challenge to work with the new administration but there are a couple of measures we can take to show the Americans that Europeans will also fulfil their part in this partnership.It is difficult, but I don’t give up on the partnership yet.Why does the US want to be convinced by its allies? They now want even friendly countries to publicly express gratitude to them. The (US-Ukraine) joint statement in Riyadh has Ukraine repeatedly expressing gratitude to the US. We would say that Europe has been a very stable and reliable partner in this alliance and we can give you many examples where Europe stood by the Americans, very closely.The most convincing example is Article 5 (when an armed attack against a NATO member state is considered an attack against all members). The only instance in the existence of NATO when Article 5 was invoked was after 9/11. It was clearly to help the Americans in a very tense situation and all that unfolded after 9/11 was a clear commitment from the European side to this alliance.We have to work with the current administration’s sentiment that they have paid too much for the Europeans. The Americans took a lot of responsibility in the defence area and their burden was the biggest of all.When I say convince the Americans, the first thing we can do is readjust the burden so that they don’t pay so much for the alliance, and increase our own military contribution to NATO.You use the word burden. The previous US administration took it as a responsibility, as a leadership role.That’s true. It’s a very good point you’re making. When I say burden, it means the cost share, the biggest share of the NATO budget. We have to acknowledge it. There will be a rearming of our armed forces so that Europe can defend itself. The incoming government of Germany is ready to assume a huge responsibility when it comes to the defence of the alliance and our country. There are very concrete discussions for a massive additional budget for defence, potentially hundreds of billions of euros, besides the current budget.Europe of the last 80 years is built on a solid peace dividend. If the dividend now stands diminished and your resources move to militarisation, how would it affect Europe?Europeans felt that the peace dividend could work in a way that makes military less important and social welfare more important. There was a period, 10-15 years ago, when our armies became smaller because nobody saw the reason for a huge army. Fifteen years ago, when I dealt with Afghanistan, we felt that the German army will be an army for “out of area” missions like in Iraq or Mali, small and well-equipped units for international stabilisation missions. Now that has proved to be wrong.With Russia, we have a neighbour in the east who has an imperial mindset. Ukraine has been invaded by a country that doesn’t respect international borders. The defence of Europe all of a sudden has gained a new urgency.Our countries need to better equip the armies. That is a sea change. Our friends in the Baltic area—Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia—have a good reason to be very afraid. These countries were a part of the Soviet Union. They are now NATO members and we have to see that the Russian army doesn’t attack them. We need to prepare ourselves, but it’s also very costly.The new German government, which will hopefully be sworn in by April, will spend considerably more for the military. That will increase our GDP share of the military. We are now at 2.2%, and it will grow substantially.Some countries in Europe, Poland for example, spend much more for military, over 4%. The Americans also spend more on military.Germany hosts the highest number of US troops in Europe. The US European Command (EUCOM) is headquartered in Stuttgart. The US is now extracting several rights from Ukraine in lieu of security guarantees. Do you foresee a similar situation when the US starts imposing its demands on other European countries? We still have a lot of American troops in Germany, but we had a lot more until the (Berlin) wall came down. When some of these American troops withdrew from Germany, we said goodbye to a good friend. We will always be very welcoming because we have very good relations with them.What we’ll see in Europe maybe is that the Americans want a tariff reduction. Germany is the fifth largest trade partner with the US and we have a positive trade balance. We export more to America than they export to Germany. Trump may say that with its five major trade partners—China, Canada, Mexico, Germany and Japan—it has a negative trade balance, and this is not good for the US. I would argue that it is not so obvious, but it is of course the privilege of every country to negotiate tariffs and trade deals. They have imposed tariffs on goods from Europe. We have (also) imposed tariffs on goods from America. At the end of the day, it is harmful for everybody. We don’t like tariff fights. It is an old-fashioned means to solve trade issues between countries. But that’s the way they choose. I don’t think that they will come with a similar request with what they have in Ukraine, with the minerals, the resources and the access to extraction of natural resources in order to pay the (security) bill. I see the American argument in Europe more in the field of civil trade, on trade balance. But they are already making impossible demands on their allies, be it Denmark or Canada. And these are not about trade. Yes, of course. We are very surprised by (Trump’s statement) that Canada should be the 51st state of the US, or (his claims on) Greenland. What is the intention behind these remarks? Is it really to incorporate Canada or Greenland? That is unimaginable. There is no other partnership like the Western partnership in the world. The US was, it still is our closest ally outside Europe. The disruption is making everybody a little nervous. We haven’t heard of an American president saying we want to swallow Canada. I don’t think that we will see Canada becoming the 51st state of America. It might be a bargaining chip. My advice is to stay calm, not get too agitated about what happens in Washington. Be steady and follow your course. And the Canadians have done that, in a decidedly clear way. It might be a bargaining chip but it can also be threatening. Yes. It sounds threatening. But the question is – how far can it be taken? The second biggest country in the world (becoming) the 51st state? What is the idea behind this? We are not used to this political discourse and we have to slowly get used to it and respond in the right way.Coming back to Germany, the incoming chancellor Friedrich Merz vows ‘independence from the US’. Is it possible?He belongs to Christian Democrat Party, the most transatlantic of all parties in Germany. I think he will never question the transatlantic alliance. There won’t be a severance between Europe and America from our side. There will always be a huge effort to mend fences with the US and to keep the alliance alive. But he (Merz) sees the reason, or the need to be more independent militarily from the United States and that means more investment in our armed forces. Can there be a NATO without the US?It would be a very different NATO. But frankly, I don’t think that the US has an interest in leaving NATO. The Trump administration wants to rearrange the burden sharing. They want to make sure that the Americans are no longer paying the biggest share. The question is how important NATO will be for the Trump administration. What role will the Trump administration be attributing to NATO, that remains to be seen.Right-wing parties are now in several European countries. How do you foresee the future of right-wing politics in Europe?You have right-wing and extremist parties in governments in the Netherlands, Italy, Finland, Sweden. We have to face the fact that this is the new normal in many European countries. If you believe in democracy, you will note that the pendulum swings from one side to the other. That’s what we are also experiencing in our country.But Germany is a special case because of our history. Eighty years ago, that’s not such a long time, we were under the most terrible regime and we caused the biggest damage worldwide. This is the reason why the traditional parties think twice before joining hands with the AfD, a party that is considered by many, at least in part, of being ideologically close to the old (Nazi) party. The threshold to join hands with such a party is higher in Germany than in any other European country.When Elon Musk openly supports AfD, does it become an irritant in the US-Germany relationship?It was not well received by many Germans. He is taking sides in other countries. He is criticising the constitutional court of Romania, for instance. Frankly, I don’t understand his approach to freedom of speech. We are very liberal democracies. Everybody can express their views, can express preferences for parties, also from abroad. But in Elon Musk’s case, I would argue, it’s a little different because he is the head of a huge social media network worldwide. If you have such a power over social media and can influence people worldwide, you might wish to be less explicit. I don’t know how much he knows about Germany, when he says that we should not worry about our past so much. We are very aware of our past and not repeating past errors is fundamental to German democracy.Given the fact that people like Elon Musk and JD Vance now dominate the US administration, how can Europe possibly mend the ties with the new administration?That’s the million-dollar question. But we will try. Our DNA is so transatlantic that we will try to reach out to the American government and try to get working relations with them. How is Trump 2.0 different from his previous administration?It has certainly not become easier when you compare it to the last Trump administration, but I will assure you that the German government will try to figure out what can be done in order to get a good working relationship with the Americans. And I’m pretty confident that we will get there. Trump one day says very bad things about Ukraine, and the next day about Russia. That’s an oscillating way of expression. You have to find ways to work with him. Some leaders have found a way of communicating with him in a good way, the Indian Prime Minister, the Italian Prime Minister, and also the President of France. How do you see India’s role in the emerging order?I think that India can, if India wants, play a very important role on the international stage. India has a strong soft power, with a very vocal foreign minister, with a prime minister who travels a lot, who has established bonds and relations with other leaders.In this very unruly international order, India can be a very reliable and trustworthy partner. And that is true also for Germany and the EU. Reliability and trustworthiness are very important in the present international relations. We have seen it when the European Union Commission recently visited India. The visit was a success because both sides realised that there is a lot of common ground. India is poised like very few other countries to play an important role on the international stage.What makes India unique?It’s a very big country, both in population and land mass. Second, it is a very solid growth country. India is a big market, and an exporter, of products and services, but also of people. India is kind of all across the world. In Germany, Canada, the UK, Australia, the Indian diaspora is growing. Indians are connecting all over the world much more than other countries. The global character of this country is unique.It has a good chance to be an international actor. There is a lot of goodwill when it comes to India. My government has put a focus on India because this is a country worth investing in. India is a bit of the flavour of the year, or even of these years.What are the areas where you would like India to be more active, both vis-a-vis Germany, and the world?We have many areas of excellent relationships. We have this new military cooperation. German and Indian armed forces are working closer together, and arms production is more interlinked. We have excellent relations with the Indian diaspora. I recently met a man, Mr Pramod Kumar, in Delhi. He started 35 years ago as a dishwasher in a German restaurant. He now owns six restaurants and has a huge meat business in Germany. He’s a local politician in Hamburg – what a story! Very often, Indians excel in Germany, and make great and valuable contributions to our country.Where could India do more? India could be internationally more engaged and committed when it comes to climate change and climate policy. I think it would be good if it was more proactive. Having said that, I have to say that we have a unique partnership with India for green and sustainable development. It is a great common undertaking.There is now a talk about multipolarity. Do you see that the way Trump is upsetting the existing order may end up creating some solid multilateral alliances?Multipolarity is a given now. We have the US and China, we have Russia, and there’s India and the global south. Multipolarity is a fact. The question is, how can we shape multipolarity in a way that respects the global order, one that has respect for sovereignty of states. The Russians have violated the international order – which is a huge problem.As they say in diplomacy, never waste a crisis, and maybe that is now Europe’s hour where Europe gets together in getting a better defense system across the continent and makes ourselves less dependent on the American shield that has protected us so far.There is an argument that instead of militarising itself, Europe should focus on its core values, its contribution to culture, literature and the arts.I think we are concentrating on it big time. You’ll see a lot of Europeans coming back to their own values, but you have to see a threat to Europe, for the first time after the wall came down. It’s a military threat, it’s real and it is called Vladimir Putin.For Germans, Europe was the saviour after 1945. We were a morally and physically completely destroyed country. We got our strength back through Europe. And therefore, we feel that the Baltic states, they might be small, they might be not very populated, but they have the right to flourish under the European umbrella.Therefore, it’s our duty to set up a defence system that can defend against a possible Russian attack.
