New Delhi: About five years ago, Margot Wallstorm, the former Swedish foreign minister who while in office had famously promoted the need for a feminist foreign policy, was speaking at Lund University on using diplomacy as a tool for peace and gender equality. Wallstorm had ended her powerful speech with a reference to an Indian woman who had played a significant role way back in 1947-48 while formulating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights at the United Nations.“When the universal declaration of human rights was adopted by the United Nations, there were only two women at the UN Human Rights Commission which was responsible for drafting the declaration. Many of you would know the first one, Eleanor Roosevelt. The other one was Hansa Mehta, an Indian writer and independence activist. When the commission proposed the phrase – all men are brothers – Hansa Mehta objected to it. She noted that this could be interpreted in some countries as an opportunity to exclude women. Hansa’s insistence on incorporating an expression that fully recognised equality of women and men was included in the text finally adopted…it said that all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.”Cut to 2021 and the parliament of a country that Mehta had represented so powerfully at a world forum in the 1940s is still short on passing a Bill that gives Indian women the right to equal participation in politics and policy making. Last September marked 25 years since the women’s reservation Bill was put on the back burner by India’s lawmakers. This, when the country’s top two national parties – the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and the Congress – have agreed on principle on the need to pass the Bill.Speaking to The Wire, Ranjana Kumari, a noted gender rights activist who have been at the forefront of that demand, says that the BJP is in a position to make the Bill a legislation. “Not just in the 2014 general elections but also in the 2019 polls, the BJP had promised it in its manifesto. I strongly feel that now is the time for the Modi government to walk the talk,” she says.Often when it comes to the Bill, what activists hear is the government’s standard line that there ought to be a consensus among all the stakeholders. Kumari argues, “But while passing, say, the triple talaq Bill, the party’s government didn’t seek any consensus from other political parties or stakeholders. Many more decisions have been taken about women without a consensus, without a discussion with different stakeholders. So why is it that only to pass the women’s reservation Bill, you ought to have a consensus?”Excerpts from the interview:You have been part of a long struggle to pass the women’s reservation Bill in parliament. Last September, it was 25 years of that Bill being introduced in the Lok Sabha (on September 19, 1996) for the first time. Several times since then, it was introduced but lapsed. The BJP had supported the Bill but now we don’t hear about it even though it has a majority in parliament. Yes. It is unfortunate; more so because not just in the 2014 general elections but also in the 2019 polls, the BJP had promised it in its manifesto. I strongly feel that now is the time for the Modi government to walk the talk. In 2014, the party’s government couldn’t pass it perhaps because it didn’t have a majority in both the houses of parliament, but now it has.What I find strange is, when you talk about the women’s reservation Bill, we are often told they are seeking political consensus but while passing, say, the triple talaq Bill, the party’s government didn’t seek any consensus from other political parties or stakeholders. Many more decisions have been taken about women without a consensus, without a discussion with different stakeholders. So why is it that only to pass the women’s reservation Bill, you ought to have a consensus? Anyway, Congress has always supported the Bill. Except the Samajwadi Party (SP), no other party, including the Muslim League, had said no to it. Now, with Akhilesh Yadav at the helm of affairs at the SP, that stand has also changed. My point is, if the BJP really wants to empower women in India, it should pass the Bill.Ranjana Kumari. Photo: Sangeeta Barooah PisharotyImportantly, the party has been seeking women’s votes. The women of this country have been voting for the BJP in large numbers. Even in the recent assembly elections in five states, the Election Commission of India data shows that women have voted more in the polls than the men, and more women have voted for the BJP than men. So a reason why it won in say, Uttar Pradesh, is because of women’s votes. The obvious question then is, why is the party not even discussing giving equal political space to women?If you put the gender lens on the ticket distribution for the UP elections, the BJP gave tickets to only six percent women. It means the women are still not being perceived as competent political leaders by the party’s ideology. That is the reason the party’s decision makers are not considering women becoming equal partners in the political arena in India. It is so far only an ornamental and peripheral move. But what is happening from such an attitude is that women are not given any agency to empower themselves.You have pointed out the ideology of the party is not fully supportive of granting political space to women.Yes. There is an ideological problem here. The RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the ideological fount of the BJP) has always considered women very respectfully; it has respect for women but the point is how. If you are not a mother, if you are not a wife, sister, daughter, then what respect do you get from it? What respect does a single mother get? If this criterion is not fulfilled, you are not even considered a citizen (worth safeguarding her rights). Women are looked only in relation to the patriarchal world.You and your organisation have also been focusing on India’s need to consider a feminist foreign policy but before I come to the why and what of it, I want to highlight that you also stress on a strong domestic gender rights-based policy framework for India. You have also stated at various fora that it would be an advantage for India’s recent endeavour to be counted as a Viswa Guru (world leader).Yes it is an imperative. Say, passing the women’s reservation Bill will help in the global image of the Modi government hugely. We are any way lacking when it comes to fulfilling the seven primary indicators of development for a country, say, education, health, employment and poverty rate, etc. One such indicator is women’s leadership in which we fall flat.I was in the townhall meeting with Prime Minister Modi and Mark Zuckerberg (in California in 2015). I was among two people who were allowed to put a question to the prime minister. I had asked him, what was his vision for empowerment of women in India. He immediately linked it to his mother; talked about her working as a household help and how much she contributed to raise him; he was in tears. All that was good but I didn’t get an answer as to how would his government take such women out of that situation. That emotion needs to be put into action.Watch: BJP Has The Numbers to Pass The Women’s Reservation Bill, So Why The Foot-Dragging?It is here that I also propose that if the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) focuses on a feminist foreign policy for the country, it would help augment India’s global image. It is in the national interest. The MEA has everything to gain, specially after the massive dip in India’s image since 2012 post the Nirbhaya gang-rape case. Globally, we had to defend questions like, is India a rape country; is Delhi the rape capital; is the country not safe for women. The smear campaign had begun after that horrible incident in the national capital and it was an obvious thing.I think the MEA needs to take cognisance of all these issues concerning India’s image around gender and help formulate a policy through the gender lens that builds India’s image abroad. Today, globally, people are talking about countries like Mexico for adopting a feminist foreign policy, in terms of giving space to women in leadership positions. Then there was the Me Too movement too across the world. So the governments have to view things from the gender lens.Let’s come to feminist foreign policy. What exactly is the Centre for Social Research doing in this arena?We at CSR are working on a pilot study to examine how gender mainstreaming can add value to India’s foreign policy engagement. We are doing it from three parameters – environment and climate change, trade and commerce, and health and humanitarian aid.The goal here is twofold: it is to assess the Indian government’s interest and openness about formal integration of gender in foreign policy concerns; and to generate an informed discussion on the scope of gender mainstreaming in the three policy areas that I have mentioned. We are saying that when India talks about these three issues, their effect on women and women’s role in them must be under focus. We are right now researching through the project funded by the Asia Foundation (TAF) on how much in India’s negotiations, discussions, etc. on these issues, gender perspective is emphasised.For instance, in a bilateral agreement with a country, say Germany, in the area of technology, climate and strategic issues, where are the women in that whole. If a country supports India in these areas, are women, their welfare and concerns within these areas, are also on the table for discussion? Do they matter at all? For instance, due to climate change, many women in remote areas have to go far away to procure water every day. When we talk about climate change and its effects on communities, do we focus on what women have to go through because of it and policy formulation based on such concerns?The main instrument of data collection for us is a set of structured interviews; the sample size is 70 interviews across all target groups including Indian government officials, research institutes, gender and international relations experts, policy consultants and foreign ministers and their personnel. We have so far conducted three rounds of discussions on the issue with officials from the MEA.What we have observed through our findings so far is that the fundamental issues in gender mainstreaming in India’s foreign policy are skewed. There is a major concern about the number of women in leadership roles and their influence in foreign policy framework, etc. We had a woman foreign minister (Sushma Swaraj) for the first time but we know how she was just a rubber stamp. We had two women foreign secretaries but we also know the influence of women at the MEA and the presence of women in foreign policy are problematic. This is because there are less women and there is less influence. Whatever women ambassadors and diplomats may say, but when it comes to major postings, those that really matter to the country’s interests, is it natural for the ministry to think of a woman? Somehow women are still considered soft. So, we are calling for restructuring of the foreign policy architecture.Can I ask you again what would India gain from it and how should it move forward in this direction?India promoting women’s leadership would only help when it comes to say, various assessment reports by world bodies, like the World Bank, World Economic Forum, the United Nations development reports, etc. Everywhere India is at the bottom when it comes to gender metrics, say, women’s participation in politics, education of women, their employment rate, etc. So we want to know whether there is any gender lens applied by the MEA while dealing with foreign policy. By doing so, it can boost India’s global image and it is in national interest. We are also looking at whether gender makes any difference in terms of their presence at the table.We know that it is not very easy to penetrate the existing system. So far, we have had four rounds of discussion on the matter with bureaucrats. Of course, after our last seminar on MEA requiring to be more gender inclusive, the foreign minister S. Jaishankar had said at a press interview that India needs to look at the world from the perspective of women and we need a more gender-balanced foreign policy. Of course he also said that the countries that have adopted a feminist foreign policy so far “have different cultures, different historical traditions” and that India “needs such a framework to evolve organically for it to work” but he also agreed that we certainly need a “much more rebalancing in this area”.Also read: Feminist Voices Could Change the Nature of International DiplomacyAfter we started communicating with the government on this, the National Human Rights Commission had held an online round table in which they discussed Indian women’s presence at international fora. That’s another area now. Women nominated by the government of India to represent itself at international forum is not happening even though there are so many competent women around. India may have sent one or two women to a forum like the United Nations but it is not natural for MEA to think about giving women strategic posts at the table on, say, economic negotiations. Are you promoting women entrepreneurs; taking their products to international market? Today, several women have bank accounts but how many are really making transactions through them; how much space are we giving women in the government’s start-up policy?An area that India can put a gender lens on is its humanitarian aid. We need to look at how women get affected during any disaster, natural or manmade. The world now knows that women are more affected than men in any disaster. For instance, during the Nepal floods, how much of our aid we set aside specifically for women’s welfare? Women’s rehabilitation also means the family’s rehabilitation. Did we really see what percentage of our aid should have gone to the rehabilitation of women in that country? In the India-Nepal or India-Myanmar talks, how much stress does India give on the issue of women’s trafficking? Post COVID-19, the rate of trafficking has shot up and MEA knows it. Can we not make child marriage a common cause in our region?Global and sub-continental challenges are there and the MEA can take these up. But right now, it is like how the prime minister doesn’t make a statement about anything that happens to women in this country. About internal policies on gender equality and women’s welfare, less said the better. So far, it is the chulha-chauka policy. Give them some little money in their accounts; a small aid for their daughter’s marriage, etc. This only shows that you are still confining women within the four walls of their homes.