New Delhi: External affairs minister S. Jaishankar has said of the Indo-Russian relations that as far as independent India was concerned, “Russia has never hurt our interests”.He said this when asked by the German newspaper Handelsblatt if India’s purchase of Russian oil was a burden on its relationship with Europe.“Everyone conducts a relationship based on their past experiences. If I look at the history of India post-independence, Russia has never hurt our interests,” Jaishankar said.He continued: “The relations of powers like Europe, the US, China or Japan with Russia, they have all seen ups and downs. We have had a stable and always very friendly relationship with Russia. And our relationship with Russia today is based on this experience.”India is dependent on oil imports as its domestic oil output lags behind growing demand.It has purchased oil from Russia at cheaper prices in a bid to cut its oil import bill, taking advantage of discounted prices owing to Western sanctions starting in early 2022 as a result of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.The Indian government has defended its decision to defy the sanctions against Russia, arguing it had a duty to take advantage of lower prices whenever possible.Jaishankar reiterated this stance in his interview to Handelsblatt when asked if India and Europe’s differing relations with Russia “put a strain on India-Europe relations”. The interview was conducted on the sidelines of Munich Security Conference he attended.“You mentioned the energy issue. When the fighting started in Ukraine, Europe shifted a large part of its energy procurement to the Middle East – until then the main supplier for India and other countries. What should we have done?” he said.“In many cases, our Middle East suppliers gave priority to Europe because Europe paid higher prices. Either we would have had no energy because everything would have gone to them. Or we would have ended up paying a lot more because you were paying more,” he added.On the other hand, he said that the global order is currently facing “multiple kinds of stress”. The stress, he said, is due to “shocks” such as Covid, the war in Ukraine, the war in Gaza, the NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan and disruptive climate events that are happening more and more frequently.“However, it is not just about strengthening the international order, but also about changing this order. Who shapes it and on what basis? The international order must evolve further,” he proposed.Explaining it further, he said, “Take the United Nations as an important part of the international order. The UN started with 50 members, now it has almost 200 – but the management of the UN has not changed. The group of the world’s top 20 or 30 economies has changed a lot in the past two decades. Ten years ago, India was the eleventh largest economy, now we are number five. In a few years, we will be the third largest.”While reiterating his stance on the need for reforms at the UN, he said the countries blocking the reform are those which are “in denial” about the way the world has changed in recent decades. “The real issue is: how do we refresh the international order, how do we renovate and reform it and its institutions? There is no point in saying to international institutions: ‘Do your job better’ if they are not capable of doing so. Look at how the international order simply collapsed during a historically large problem like Covid. Every country acted in its best interest.”Upon being asked if there’s a change in India’s German policy given that India is trying to buy more weapons, he said, ” Germany has long been cautious when it comes to security and defense. In contrast, we have had robust cooperation with France for a long time and to a more limited extent with Spain and Italy. But I have seen a development in Germany’s attitude in recent years; my interlocutors now understand that you can’t completely exclude one part of a relationship. It is developing – and that is good for both sides.”